Newbie questions on some Hikvision config for already installed system.

[obhayes]

Hi,

I am helping my father configure his 7 camera HIK vision system (detail of setup at end of post), it was put in a few years back and never really been looked at, so I am trying to get better video captures out of it. I am not convinced the installer really did a good job of configuring the NVR / Recording info.. the cabling was great, just no real handover or understanding what the best config was / or post visits. Id ask questions and they were "Just leave it like this". I have looked at a few captures and they are not great so want to get it right for when we really need it.

I have some probably fairly straightforward questions

1) When setting H265+ how will you know if the camera supports it? (cameras at end of post) Is the NVR GUI software intelligent to not enable the option if camera does not support it? I am concerned setting it for a camera that does not support would have an adverse affect. Is there somewhere you can check model x supports it.

2) If you set a camera to enable H.265+ then many options are greyed out, which i understand, as it controls the bitrate… except Max Average bit rate. I am recording at 1080p so what should I set the Max Average bit rate to (it’s the only one I can change when on H265+). When I changed it to H265+ it was set around 32 or 64kbps! Which I thought was clearly wrong even with H265+ and moved to 2000 which even then i think is still too low?

3) The 2 bullet cameras are 3MP which is more than 1080P i can record at? So assume I am limited by the NVR / this? Again not sure if the NVR also limits on specific channels /ports that the cameras are plugged into, so i should ensure these higher spec'd cameras plugged into a different channels. The NVR can handle 8 cameras i believe?

4) We have a mix of turret/dome and bullet cameras, one of the bullet cameras seems to pick up a light source from a neighbouring property, so all the other 6 cameras go into black and white mode at night so easier to see people / objects but this one stays in colour so you can hardly see anything. Is there a way you make cameras go into black and white / night mode at a specific time. The shots from this camera at night are a bit useless currently. Is the only way to re-position the camera or can you do something a bit more clever and detailed with zones / grids to ignore a light source? I think the bullet cameras have a motorised zoom but no idea how you get this to work! I think it has to be set once i.e. you cant zoom in and out remotely its a one off.

5) I couldn’t work out how to check the firmware version of the cameras, any pointers would be useful.

There are 7 cameras
5 x 2 Megapixel Ultra low light EXIR Turret camera DS-2CE56D8T-ITM)
2 X 3 Megapixel Motorized VF EXIR Bullets - DS-2CE16F7T0 (A) IT3Z

Very slight chance these are not correct models, but again could not see that in the GUI, just what the supplier said they were.

Cameras connected to NVR
DS-7208HQHI-K1
Model Firmware V3.5.32 Build 180129

i use the iphone app to check the cameras, they are running continuous (not motion detection)

Seriously any help / advice would be greatly appreciated! First real post here...
thanks
Brad

 

[Dan]

Hi @obhayes

Answers to your questions are below:

1) Yes, the DVR should auto-detect if the camera does or does not support H.265+ so if it is displaying that option for the cameras you have then you should be fine to use it.

2) With network cameras we would usually set 2MP cameras to somewhere around 4,000-6,000Kbps because they are unlikely to use this much but it gives them the space to go that high without being capped, but we don't work with analog so I do not know exactly what the expected bitrate on H.265+ would be. (the sensor hardware is usually less advanced than IP cameras so may not use as much bitrate)

3) According to the DVR datasheet it should support up to 4MP analog, see below:

When 1080p lite mode is not enabled: 4 MP lite/3 MP/1080p/720p/VGA/WD1/4CIF/CIF When 1080p Lite mode is enabled: 4 MP lite/3 MP/1080p lite/720p lite/VGA/WD1/4CIF/CIF​

But we don't work with analog so I am not sure how you can set your cameras to run at 3MP resolution, I think it will be under the record > Main Stream settings. It should not matter which ports/channels you use for these cameras.

4) See page 68 of the DVR user manual for instructions on adjusting the Day/Night switch, also check page 69 for image enhancement settings as these may help improve the low light performance, especially the Exposure setting which if you set low (below 1/50) the exposure time will be longer and you will get more light into the sensor for better low-light images but if you go too low you will start to see motion blur.

5) See page 64 of the DVR user manual for instructions to upgrade the camera firmware

 

[JB1970]

As @Dan says you have a DVR as opposed to an NVR. It is a HDTVI analogue system.

1 - In the case of the HDTVI system which you have it's just the DVR that needs to support H265+. If it shows, it's available, however I'd stick to H265.

2 - As above - stick to H265. If image quality is what you're looking for I wouldn't use H265+

3 - With HDTVI you can set the resolution of the camera itself using the PTZ commands top access the camera menu. Click the Iris Open icon to to get the main menu screen, navigate with up, down, left, right and select options with iris open. However you can also set what resolution the DVR records that image at in the DVR record settings. It doesn't matter which connection you use. the DVR auto detects the camera and will show what resolution the camera is in the DVR camera menu under the greyed out heading "Front End" from memory. It's greyed out because you can only change not by accessing the cameras internal menu as described.

4 - No. You can alter the threshold of how dark it is when they change to monochrome and activate infra red. You can also change backlight, WDR and AGC. Most of this has to be done from the cameras menu using PTZ commands as above as there's not much in the DVR menu. Unfortunately there is no adjustable shutter on most of the HDTVI cameras - so you'll be stuck with some motion blur when dark. For the motorised zoom click the icon for PTZ and use the zoom icon (trees). They may well be manual focus in which case you'll have to zoom a bit, focus a bit to keep the image sharp - best to do it on a night when the IR is on. It should be set as desired and then left alone - it's quite hard to centre the focus as the motor tends to drift passed the sharpest point - takes a little practice.

5 - HDTVI cameras are not firmware upgradeable - they are what they are. The DVR firmware can be updated to the newer DVR 4 GUI. It is much improved from the version 3 but you'll have to learn how to use the DVR all over again as it is completely different.

To be honest, you'll probably struggle to get much of an improvement over the images you already have. With HDTVI it's just down to camera angles and positions as there's not a great deal of improvement available in the settings. They're not the best systems and the image quality, camera build quality, features and performance fall well short of an IP system. People install HDTVI over IP for one of the following three reasons. First to upgrade an existing system that has coaxial cable in place, second because they are much cheaper and the average customer won't realise until they need footage for evidence, thirdly due to a lack of experience/knowledge. There are so many electricians, aerial installers, alarm engineers selling systems with little if any actual knowledge of CCTV or IP.

 

[obhayes]

Dan and JB1970, seriously guys this is really great info and i really appreciate the time you both put into this, i need to go away and get the best out of what we have. Taking on board all your points and thanks for clarification. I have a lot to check and configure.

I think i will switch back to 256 and not use the 256+ if the image quality will be better.

Once i have configured i will report back (lucky you!) if i Still wanted to upgrade the image quality I assume would be to replace the cameras with newer versions but would would always be limited by the 4MP limit of the DVR? (We had a bigger Hard disk installed, and stores like a months worth of data for 7 cameras).

JB i think i fall into the 2nd category you outlined, I think my 2 biggest gripes was when the installer came in and put the cameras in, they were all placed above 2nd floor windows, which you think make sense, they cannot be tampered with however all you see is the top of heads and people coming in the drive etc but not faces. Hence we got 2 bullet cameras which sit lower like 2.5metres and hopefully can capture faces. Also we were never really shown example footage / captures from the cameras we had. I guess you get what you pay for as this wasn't a super expensive system, the time really was running cables to all the outside cameras.

Brad

 

[JB1970]

Dan and JB1970, seriously guys this is really great info and i really appreciate the time you both put into this, i need to go away and get the best out of what we have. Taking on board all your points and thanks for clarification. I have a lot to check and configure.

I think i will switch back to 256 and not use the 256+ if the image quality will be better.

Once i have configured i will report back (lucky you!) if i Still wanted to upgrade the image quality I assume would be to replace the cameras with newer versions but would would always be limited by the 4MP limit of the DVR? (We had a bigger Hard disk installed, and stores like a months worth of data for 7 cameras).

JB i think i fall into the 2nd category you outlined, I think my 2 biggest gripes was when the installer came in and put the cameras in, they were all placed above 2nd floor windows, which you think make sense, they cannot be tampered with however all you see is the top of heads and people coming in the drive etc but not faces. Hence we got 2 bullet cameras which sit lower like 2.5metres and hopefully can capture faces. Also we were never really shown example footage / captures from the cameras we had. I guess you get what you pay for as this wasn't a super expensive system, the time really was running cables to all the outside cameras.

Brad

Sometimes a lot of the issues with camera images regardless of whether they're IP or HDTVI is down to positioning or field of view. As you mention cameras that are too high up won't (necessarily) give the best view, though they will be often easier to cable that way (straight into a loft space).

The available cameras very often have too wide a field of view. This increases perspective, making objects in view appear smaller and further away. My understanding is that this is often due to what Hikvision UK import into the country - making slightly narrower lens options a special order with a long lead time. The varifocal models get around this allowing you to adjust the field of view at setup to focus on a smaller area in detail - the driveway entrance for example. It's pointless having everything in view if the target object doesn't occupy a sufficient enough portion of the screen to be usable in the footage.

The DVR on a HDTVI system is a limiting factor as you mention with hard limit on the resolution of the HDTVI camera and the number of frames per second it can capture. They're usually a 2MP, 5MP or 8MP DVR and if you use 5MP cameras on a 5MP DVR they'll record at a maximum of 12FPS (which is generally enough).

Don't get too hung up on the number of megapixels. I found myself often using the 2MP HDTVI cameras on systems as they had a better ultra low light model that was not available as a 5MP model. Low light performance is key so it's important to look at that when choosing cameras.

Agreed - you do get what you pay for. I end up having to install HDTVI for most people as they'll not pay for IP or will know of someone who's had a HDTVI system installed cheaply and cannot justify the additional expense.