NVR selection help, I, K, M series... for 8MP ipcams?

[jpcolin]

Hi all,

After waiting for years that the industry produced the camera i was waiting for (Acusense + Colorvu + Alarm output + 8MP) at a decent price. I have purchased and installed 1 ds-2cd2387g2-lsu/SL. At the moment i'm very happy with the capabilities and image.
I need to purchase 6 more of these to finalise my home project.

I was looking for info about the right NVR to buy for this cams. I read that 15Mbps is necessary for these cams. So 15 Mbps x 7 = 105Mbps + A HD doorbell.
So i was looking at the DS-7616NXI-I2 that has 160Mbps incoming bandwidth. Decoding of 4 cams at a time is fine I think, not sure.

What i also need, is :
- Alarm input and output
- Live Guard capability
- Acusense for my doorbell cam

POE is not needed since i have a 24port POE switch.

But i read somewhere that this model struggles with that much 4k cams, how come? Bandwidth is ok right?
Should i wait for a M model NVR with acusense? this should come out one day i guess...

Any advice is welcome.

 

[JB1970]

Hi all,

After waiting for years that the industry produced the camera i was waiting for (Acusense + Colorvu + Alarm output + 8MP) at a decend price. I have purchased and installed 1 ds-2cd2387g2-lsu/SL. At the moment i'm very happy with the capabilities and image.
I need to purchase 6 more of these to finalise my home project.

I was looking for info about the right NVR to buy for this cams. I read that 15Mbps is necesssary for these cams. So 15 Mbps x 7 = 105Mbps + A HD doorbel.
So i was looking at the DS-7616NXI-I2 that has 160Mbps incoming bandwidth. Decoding of 4 cams at a time is fine I think, not sure.

Wat i also need, is :
- alarm input and output
- Lifegard capability
- Acusens for my doorbell cam

POE is not needed since i have a 24port POE switch.

But i read somewhere that this model struggles with that much 4k cams, how come? Bandwidth is ok right?
Sould i wait for a M model NVR with acusens? this sould come out one day i guess...

Any advice is welcome.

Both the DS-7616NXI-I2 and the M series are good options. Performance wise the M model wins with better specs for decoding and a higher incoming bandwidth. I have the DS-7616NI-M2/16P installed for my own system. I have 5 x 8MP cameras, 4 x 4MP cameras and the intercom connected to it. All cameras are running at 25 FPS, highest quality with the bit rates set at max and it's still very responsive. I don't see the benefit of the AcuSense recorder if all of your cameras feature AcuSense, so wouldn't hold out for an M series with AcuSense as there's only your doorbell camera that won't have it.

 

[jpcolin]

Both the DS-7616NXI-I2 and the M series are good options. Performance wise the M model wins with better specs for decoding and a higher incoming bandwidth. I have the DS-7616NI-M2/16P installed for my own system. I have 5 x 8MP cameras, 4 x 4MP cameras and the intercom connected to it. All cameras are running at 25 FPS, highest quality with the bit rates set at max and it's still very responsive. I don't see the benefit of the AcuSense recorder if all of your cameras feature AcuSense, so wouldn't hold out for an M series with AcuSense as there's only your doorbell camera that won't have it.

Well there are 2 reasons to wait for an Acusense model:
- Face recognition on my doorbell
- Live-Guard - have you looked into that?

That is awesome, and with a dry contact input on the NVR i can activate and deactivate it with my security system. The perfect security-CCTV system to me. Both working together.

 

[jpcolin]

Anyone tested the DS-7616NXI-I2 with 8x8MP acusens/colorvu camera's?

 

[JB1970]

True - for AcuSense on the doorbell you'll need the AcuSense recorder. Live Guard is on the camera so will work regardless of the recorder model, I've had it on my K, I and M series recorders. If you're using the Live Guard cameras remember you have a configurable input and output on there that can be used as required.

You could also (as I have a few times) use a Live Guard at the door and connect that alarm input to a standard or wireless doorbell using the 2 way audio function. That will give you the doorbell functionality from your existing doorbell (internal chimes) while allowing 2 way audio from the camera and the camera has AcuSense. It's not as slick in operation when a call comes through ( a few additional button presses) but is a workaround nonetheless.

I haven't used the 16 channel NXI-I2 with 8x8MP but it'll be fine from a bandwidth perspective.

 

[jpcolin]

Are you sure about the NVR regarding the Live-Guard?
Any Hikvison NVR will do?
As you have experience with Live-Guard, is it true a specific firmware is needed?
I read somewhere about compatible products, can't find it anymore, but here's some info.

 

[JB1970]

Are you sure about the NVR regarding the Live-Guard?
Any Hikvison NVR will do?
As you have experience with Live-Guard, is it true a specific firmware is needed?
I read somewhere about compatible products, can't find it anymore, but here's some info.

View attachment 9081

In my experience I've had no issues.

On newer NVR models/firmware you can set the linkage of a standard (different) camera event, to trigger the audible warning or strobe on your live guard camera (Camera 1 motion detection triggering audio/strobe on Camera 2 Live Guard). This can be done through the NVR interface.

On older models (or firmware) you may not be able to trigger the strobe/audio on the Live Guard camera from an event in another camera (strobe/audio on live guard camera can only be triggered from an event on that same camera). Additionally the option to link the live guard camera event to the strobe/audio alarm on the camera might have to be carried out by logging into the Live Guard camera directly, as the option may be missing from the NVR interface. It still works though....

 

[jpcolin]

Thanks for this detailed info JB!
I just have to find a good deal for a DS-7616NXI-I2 then ;-)

Last 2 questions
- what is the difference between the NI and the NXI range? not clear to me.
- Is decoding of streams at time enough in your experience?

And if i need help for Live-Guard you seem to be the specialist!

 

[Dan]

Hi @jpcolin

This forum post explains the differences between the current NVR models

Both NI & NXI I-series NVR will support AcuSense cameras, the main difference is that the NXI AcuSense NVRs will allow you to add AcuSense features to a small number of low-resolution non-AcuSense cameras (there are some other slight spec differences explained in the above post).

 

[jpcolin]

Oh yes i see it now. NI is without accusense en NXI is with accusense.
But i also read that i series is discontinued!
So i assume it will be replace by a NXI-M model with acusense? Any info on this?

 

[JB1970]

Oh yes i see it now. NI is without accusense en NXI is with accusense.
But i also read that i series is discontinued!
So i assume it will be replace by a NXI-M model with acusense? Any info on this?

I think it's just the standard I series that's discontinued and the NXI I series is still current.

It's the bit after the hyphen that dictates whether it's an I, K or M series so 'I2' denotes I series with 2 hard drive bays. The 'I' in NXI and NI just means 'International'. See below for the NVR model number details (E series obsolete, Q series not available in the UK and M series not mentioned as the slide has not been updated as yet):

 

[jpcolin]

JB,

Yes I knew that, but it seems logic to met that is the NI-i replaced by the NI-M, that the NXI-i will be replaced by a possible NXI-M.
Strange Hikvision don't give any information about the used processors in the NVR's.
Are you are of problems with the NXI-I and multiple 8Mp cameras?
I just don't want to invest in something that is not futureproof. Don't want a laggy interface of laggy image.

thanks

 

[JB1970]

JB,

Yes I knew that, but it seems logic to met that is the NI-i replaced by the NI-M, that the NXI-i will be replaced by a possible NXI-M.
Strange Hikvision don't give any information about the used processors in the NVR's.
Are you are of problems with the NXI-I and multiple 8Mp cameras?
I just don't want to invest in something that is not futureproof. Don't want a laggy interface of laggy image.

thanks

It could happen (NXI-M) - who knows. It'd be unlikely to be a replacement as the NXI-I isn't that old.

I'm not aware of any issues with the NXI-I and multiple 8MP cameras. Specs wise the NXI-I is just the I with added AcuSense capability. I did have some lag on my I series (DS-7616NI-I2/16P) with multiple 8MP cameras and occasional freezing of the interface. I've no such issues with the new M model. Performance will be linked to the quantity of cameras, frames per second, compression level, bit rate and scene.

Regarding future proof. Very little technology wise is. Much like computers all you can do is get the best/highest performance available at the time. What I would point out is that the advancements/performance upgrades in cameras have been much greater and more frequent than in NVR. In NVR platform wise we've gone from SE > SP > E > I > K > I with AcuSense > K with AcuSense > M (though there are performance/feature differences within those platforms - 76xx, 77xx etc). The first four of those are now obsolete/end of life. Camera wise there always seems to be new models and features appearing.

My personal opinion would be that if multiple 8MP cameras are what you have/will have and you want to run those cameras at high frame rates, then the M series is the one to go for. For me the benefits of having AcuSense on that one doorbell camera would be far outweighed by the performance benefits of the M series. For the doorbell camera you could simply install a PIR and use that for detection either on its own or as a combined alarm with standard motion from the doorbell.

 

[jpcolin]

JB,

How old is the NXI range? How many 8MP camera did you have on it and was is a 8ch or 16ch?
M serie seems hard to find here. how is the 16ch NI-M pricewise to the 16ch NXI-I?

I wanted acusense on the MVR to use face recognition on the doorbel not for human detection.

Thank you for the nice talk and advice!

 

[JB1970]

JB,

How old is the NXI range? How many 8MP camera did you have on it and was is a 8ch or 16ch?
M serie seems hard to find here. how is the 16ch NI-M pricewise to the 16ch NXI-I?

I wanted acusense on the MVR to use face recognition on the doorbel not for human detection.

Thank you for the nice talk and advice!

Looking at the firmware build dates (may not be that accurate depending on market), the first generation came out in late 2018, second generation (b) mid 2020 and third generation (c) early 2021. I've only fitted a few and they only had a couple of 8MP cameras on.

Prices will vary among suppliers - for some reason my supplier is not stocking the NXI-I anymore, just the NXI-K. I won't post prices on the forum, but if you take a look for yourself on the use-ip shop you can see the difference there.

I've not tried the face recognition on those models - I'm not sure how great it would be on a doorbell camera with a non adjustable ultra wide angle view.

 

[jpcolin]

JB,

I shearched foro an M model, but can't seem to find it here.
Found some good deal on NXI-I model, i have to ask if it is a (c) model.

From what i understand NXI-K is even less powerfull than the I. if i can't find a M i better take a I right?

What is your meaning, if i get liveview on 4x 8Mp cam's @ 20fps per screen, i should be ok right?
That is the decoding capability

Keep you posted

 

[JB1970]

JB,

I shearched foro an M model, but can't seem to find it here.
Found some good deal on NXI-I model, i have to ask if it is a (c) model.

From what i understand NXI-K is even less powerfull than the I. if i can't find a M i better take a I right?

What is your meaning, if i get liveview on 4x 8Mp cam's @ 20fps per screen, i should be ok right?
That is the decoding capability

View attachment 9104

Keep you posted

Regarding specifications and what differs between models, you're best off downloading the Hikvision pdf data sheets to compare features in greater detail. you can get those straight from the Hikvision website product page.

Decoding capability is more important for playback than live view.

Live View - When you're in a multi screen view, you're unlikely to view all cameras at their full 8MP resolution as there's no need due to the image size on screen. Depending on the screen layout, the NVR will show the lower resolution sub stream for multi screen live view. When you double click one of the images to show that camera full screen, it will automatically switch to show you the main stream. On the 8MP cameras, you can now run the sub stream up to 720P resolution so multi screen image quality won't be compromised.

Playback - This is where decoding capability matters if you want to playback multiple channels simultaneously, as you'll be viewing the main stream. Again it's rarely necessary to view every camera at once - if you're viewing footage of someone breaking into your car at the front of the house, there's no need to be simultaneously viewing the back garden. Also 'smart playback' (when you're filtering to show alerts on the timeline) is only available for single camera playback regardless of model. If you go over the decoding capability, one or more screen segments will show 'no resource'

 

[CCTVGUY99]

So to expand on this, JP Colin is correct about the NXI’s only supporting 4 8mp’s cameras at 25fps. After this if you add any more cameras then the cameras in streamed playback will become choppy as hell and appear to freeze for upto 5-6 seconds at a time especially when streaming to hik connect.

As for referring to HIK data sheets I would have recommended this till about a month ago, however hikvision have been very devious and REMOVED the specifics about decoding on the data sheets if you look closely as it was affecting their sales of older recorders…

They no longer show the amount of each camera type a recorder will support

This in my opinion is a very dirty trick by Hik