DS-7204huhi-k1 camera upgrade advice

[Geordie564]

Current DVR is DS-7204huhi-k1 with two 5mp cameras connected.

I'm looking to upgrade the cameras to something with more night time colour and zoom quality. There have been several anti social behavior incidents but because their faces were not clear the police could not prosecute.

Can you advise?

 

[JB1970]

Current DVR is DS-7204huhi-k1 with two 5mp cameras connected.

I'm looking to upgrade the cameras to something with more night time colour and zoom quality. There have been several anti social behavior incidents but because their faces were not clear the police could not prosecute.

Can you advise?

You might struggle trying to find something in the HDTVI range.

If you want night time colour, then without enough ambient or additional light you'll need the ColorVu. The ColorVu are good but in order to stay in colour 24/7 they use a slow shutter and this will result in some motion blur when you attempt to get a still frame. Unfortunately, unlike the IP cameras, it's not possible to set a specific shutter speed to avoid that, as there is little adjustment in the cameras.

When you say "more zoom quality" I think you're maybe hoping to cover a wide angle view and zoom in after the event and it all depends at what distance the target is from the camera. The mistake most make is trying to cover too much with a single camera. With that DVR you are restricted to 5MP cameras, so while you may be able to get a better quality image, you won't resolve any additional detail using the digital zoom function. You would need to set up the vari focal lens with a narrower field of view to bring the target closer (while excluding the wider area from the frame)

For standard colour/mono with IR illumination, I'd usually go for the ultra low light varifocal turret as I've found the nighttime performance to be far better than other models. DS-2CE79H8T-AIT3ZF. These are not PoC (Power over Coax) so need a 12V supply (there are no ultra low light PoC models in the range)

For ColorVu, it doesn't look like they do a varifocal 5MP model, so you've only the option of a wide angle model which probably won't give you the detail you want/need.

 

[Geordie564]

Thank you for your reply.

So, would it be worth upgrading to an IP system? The 8mp colourvu network cameras that have just been released?

The cameras are under the eaves and the anti-social behaviour is happening at the end of the driveway on the footpath, which is probably 15/20 metres from the camera.

 

[JB1970]

Thank you for your reply.

So, would it be worth upgrading to an IP system? The 8mp colourvu network cameras that have just been released?

The cameras are under the eaves and the anti-social behaviour is happening at the end of the driveway on the footpath, which is probably 15/20 metres from the camera.

You will undoubtedly get better images. There are DORI (Detect, Observe, Recognise, Identify) distances given on the data sheets for each camera and lens combination. Identify (someone unknown) is half the distance of Recognise (someone you know) and bear in mind those distances will be based on captures in decent light without taking movement into account. The DORI for the 8MP is shown below:

At 15/20 metres you're still going to struggle to identify a moving person in darkness. You would be better having an additional camera optically zoomed to cover the specific area.

 

[Geordie564]

Very useful, thanks!

Sorry to pick your brain ....

So if I went for four 8mp 4k Acusense Colourvu IP cameras which NVR would be best for maximum frame rate?

 

[JB1970]

Very useful, thanks!

Sorry to pick your brain ....

So if I went for four 8mp 4k Acusense Colourvu IP cameras which NVR would be best for maximum frame rate?

Both the K and I series will do max frame rate. With IP systems the camera, not the recorder, is the limiting factor. I'd advise the I series as the K series does not work so well with AcuSense. they don't do a 4 channel I series so you'd be looking at a DS7608NI-I2/8P.

 

[Geordie564]

Thanks, I'm still working on this lol.

So 4x cameras could all do 30fps on that NVR?

 

[JB1970]

Thanks, I'm still working on this lol.

So 4x cameras could all do 30fps on that NVR?

Long answer (I do go on a bit!) The new ColorVu and AcuSense G2 camera models with G5 platform firmware will do 3840 x 2160 (8MP/4K) at 25fps (the 30fps figure relates to using when set to 60Hz rather than 50Hz). The main thing to look at with the NVRs, as well as the max supported resolution, is the incoming bandwidth figure. A 4 channel K series is 40Mbps total. The 8 channel I series is 80Mbps and the 16 channel is 160Mbps. When we say it's a 4 channel, 8 channel, 16 channel etc recorder, that incoming bandwidth figure is a factor. An 8 channel recorder will accept UP TO 8 cameras or 80Mbps whichever at reaches first. I have my 8MP ColorVu set to 12288kbps H265, 25fps at Highest quality. Using that as an example I couldn't reliably have 8 on an 8 channel 80Mbps NVR as I'd be exceeding the maximum incoming bandwidth.

Short answer - Yes

 

[Geordie564]

How many cameras do you have? Which NVR have you got?

Really need to get this right this time!

 

[JB1970]

How many cameras do you have? Which NVR have you got?

Really need to get this right this time!

I previously had a 8 channel K series NVR (DS7608NI-K2/8P) but needed one more camera so updated to the 16 channel I series (DS7616NI-I2/16P). So I have nine cameras now - I swap models frequently but currently I have the following models connected:

2 x DS-2CD5A36G0 (5 series "Ultra" varifocal 4 MP bullet)
1 x DS-2CD2325FWD-I (Darkfighter 2 MP turret - oldest on the system but still a decent image)
1 x DS-2CD2346G2-IU (AcuSense 4 MP turret with mic)
1 x DS-2CD2386G2-I (AcuSense 8MP turret)
1 x DS-2CD2386G2-ISU/SL (as above but with 2 way audio)
2 x DS-2CD2347G2-IU (ColorVu AcuSense turret with mic)
1 x DS-2CD2387G2-LSU/SL (ColorVu AcuSense turret with 2 way audio)

All are running at full frame 25fps with H265 encoding (20fps max on the two 2386G2s as they are the older "non C" model with G3 firmware). From the network stats, I'm currently using 81Mbps (of 160 available). So that demonstrates to a point what I mentioned in my previous response. If I was to remove just one camera and put the rest on an 8 channel model, I'd be too close for comfort to the 80Mbps incoming bandwidth limit and only three of the cameras in that list are 8MP models.

 

[Geordie564]

That's a lot of cameras! Too complicated for me lol.

So I'm going with four 2CD2387G2-LU/B (C) cameras and a DS7616NI12/16P for the highest quality available?

Next 2.8mm or 4mm? Am I right in thinking 4mm is less view right and left but more detail looking straight ahead?

 

[JB1970]

That's a lot of cameras! Too complicated for me lol.

So I'm going with four 2CD2387G2-LU/B (C) cameras and a DS7616NI12/16P for the highest quality available?

Next 2.8mm or 4mm? Am I right in thinking 4mm is less view right and left but more detail looking straight ahead?

The model you mention at 8MP will give you the greatest detail/highest pixel density, but you may need to reign in expectations a bit:

the anti-social behaviour is happening at the end of the driveway on the footpath, which is probably 15/20 metres from the camera.

What you (probably) won't be able to do is digitally zoom in on someone 20 metres away, on a night, that is moving, and get facial detail - it's too much of an ask. You can digitally zoom to an extent but don't expect miracles! Usually I'd suggest a model with a vari-focal lens so that you can set it with a narrow view that covers just the width of your driveway entrance, if that's where the bother is; rather than the entire drive, garden and surrounding neighbourhood. A narrower view like that would mean the target would be larger on screen. I've just had a look and the only model available in the ColorVu range with adjustable lens is 4MP rather than 8 and only zooms to 9mm giving a 45 degree field of view, so with half the resolution probably isn't any better. Only other option would be a PTZ dome.

The 2.8mm has around a 105 degree horizontal field of view whereas the 4mm is about 90 degrees. Personally I only use the 2.8mm if what I'm trying to view is immediately in front of the camera, where it might otherwise be out of the frame. For instance I use a 2.8mm at the front door so I can see someone fully when they are stood right next to the camera. I have another one that covers my car, as it is parked just a couple of feet from where the camera is mounted. All others are 4mm.

 

[Geordie564]

Thanks for the very helpful advice! I'm learning more here than I did over 10 minutes with an installer

I'll definitely go with the 8mp ColorVu and I series NVR, maybe 2.8mm at the front door and 4mm on the soffits.

 

[Geordie564]

Just to confirm it's an 8 channel NVR I need not 16?

 

[tomycrosound]

Hello, I know that the DS-7204HUHI-K1 recorder has some kind of limit depending on the combination of cameras. (First channel up to 8MP, etc.) I'm interested specifically, can it record two analog cameras at a resolution of 4MP?

 

[JB1970]

Hello, I know that the DS-7204HUHI-K1 recorder has some kind of limit depending on the combination of cameras. (First channel up to 8MP, etc.) I'm interested specifically, can it record two analog cameras at a resolution of 4MP?

The HUHI can record all channels at 5MP 12FPS for the analogue HDTVI cameras (HQHI is restricted to 2MP)

 

[tomycrosound]

Thank you!

 

[tomycrosound]

I don't know if I can insert the question here, I switched one (new) camera to AHD mode, the switch on the old one doesn't seem to work - it won't switch to another mode when hold. Now on the new camera I can no longer access the camera menu (exposure, night mode, etc.) Does it make sense and is it because it is in AHD mode or is it some other problem?

 

[JB1970]

I don't know if I can insert the question here, I switched one (new) camera to AHD mode, the switch on the old one doesn't seem to work - it won't switch to another mode when hold. Now on the new camera I can no longer access the camera menu (exposure, night mode, etc.) Does it make sense and is it because it is in AHD mode or is it some other problem?

Ahh I guess this was a “what will this do moment”

Yes it’ll probably be because it’s in the wrong mode. In the wrong mode it won’t work with the Hikvision UTC (up the coax) telemetry (which is how the menu is accessed and altered). You say the switch doesn’t work. I’ve not used it myself, but when you switch mode on the camera, it’ll cycle through several modes, - Composite, HDTVI, CVI, AHD. If you’ve got an image, but can’t access the camera menu - you’re probably in Composite mode (with a low resolution - the camera menu in the DVR should say what it has picked up). Use the switch again until an image appears again and that should be back to HDTVi

 

[tomycrosound]

the camera I had was in TVI mode the whole time. I added another camera and decided to change both to AHD mode. The new camera was in TVI by default. I hold the switch on it for 5 seconds, and the screen said AHD mode. I did the same with another older camera, but it doesn't want to switch... it stayed in tvi mode. On the new camera, I can no longer access the menu, and the camera and image work fine without any problems. The DVR supports AHD mode.. Maybe there is some limitation in it that is not written anywhere on dvr spec.
..I did this after reading that there was a better picture on AHD. I noticed that the grass is greener, more color and slightly sharper image.