I must say, I'm more than a little surprised to see Use-IP sell the Samsung IP camera range as a possible replacement to Hikvision devices. In my experience, Samsung has just never made decent security cameras that can, in any way, be called of commercial quality; I include in that, 'high-end' private residences, which are rapidly becoming the bulk of my business. You only have to look at the Samsung camera review on the excellent Use-IP YouTube channel and that says it all. In particular, the IR mode is nothing short of atrocious. Nowadays, clients demand top quality image capture, day or night, particularly when you're trying to sell that as a key feature and Samsung devices just don't come close. I truly wish Use-IP can somehow pull a rabbit out of the hat and start to sell Hikvision in whatever way they can, for no other reason than, long-term, their business will suffer as buyers seek decent IP camera solutions elsewhere.
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Firstly, Thank You for taking the time & trouble to provide us with this feedback. I am grateful for it, and welcome the opportunity to discuss and explain this further.
I feel the need to reiterate that it is HikVision's strategy that changed; they do not want end-users to buy and self-install HikVision-branded products.
We still believe that those products remain some of the best that you can select for your IP CCTV system.
We continue to promote, recommend, and sell HikVision-branded products.
The HikVision strategy change and them attempting to block us happened very quickly. We switched our Home page and promotions to Samsung as a quick but logical reaction at that time.
We felt that Samsung was probably the best / strongest manufacturer to compete with HikVision. A well-known, respected and accepted brand with a long history in CCTV and a competitive product range/price offering.
The dilemma we have subsequently run into with Samsung is that the Q-Series (which is cost competitive with HikVision) performs badly, and the X-series is more expensive than most people would be willing to pay (should need to pay?).
NB - We have only performed one in-depth Samsung camera review:
Samsung QNV-7030R 4MP Vandal-Resistant IR Dome Camera
[the link above is to our new "IP Camera Reviews" website]
It was very disappointing - physically (hard to adjust axis 3) as well as performance-wise, with particularly poor IR and night-time performance as you say.
We have made Samsung aware of our findings.
Six weeks on from HikVision's strategy change, and in some ways little has changed - still almost 45,000 listings for HikVision products on ebay, still widely available at Amazon and other websites.
The reactions have been interesting; many angry at HikVision; one customer angry at us for encouraging him to base his system upon HikVision.
HikVision's response to angry customers has been along the lines of "you don't have the specialist skills to install our products well" - which has tended to make them even more angry.
HikVision's new global strategy was only introduced in the UK & Europe, where HiWatch has been introduced as a new low-cost / lower-spec end-user solution. I've not seen any feedback on HiWatch performance yet. We will in due course test and review.
It's going to be a tricky strategy for them to balance - two distinct lines of essentially the same product type (IP cameras) from a single manufacturer:
It's a debate that can, and will, go around in circles.
But it's a specious argument to claim that end-users should no longer be able to purchase HikVision-branded products because a set of skills over & above those needed to install HiWatch are required. HikVision themselves have only ever offered a one-day introductory course to their company and all their products - a course that our team found oh so basic.
Plainly, the real reason is to prevent pricing being shown online and thereby protect Trade installers' margins. But, there's a real risk in this strategy - that the Trade are now up against a new and even cheaper brand - HiWatch; from the same manufacturer; available widely; priced very competitively (to take market share from the likes of Swann & Foscam); and surely fit-for-purpose? Because, as customers are sure to argue - "it's the same manufacturer".
Perhaps those installers will direct their customers to the use-IP YouTube channel where they will be able to see which cameras perform best
In the USA HikVision have just announced 'EZVIZ Pro'. EZVIZ is yet another HikVision range of IP cameras. The EZVIZ range has been around for a year or more, and is firmly aimed at end-users. It seems that rather than introduce HiWatch in the USA they've decided to introduce a better 'Pro' range of EZVIZ cameras which end-users can buy (to the annoyance of Trade installers). A different, but equally muddled and risky strategy. HikVision-branded products remain available to all in USA - yes, to end-users who've had no training!
I say again, we continue, at this time, to recommend and sell HikVision-branded products.
They perform really well and offer great value.
Currently, THE best IP camera we have tested is HikVision's 8MP turret camera, their DS-2CD2385FWD-I.
Following-on from the publication of my statement we were approached by many brands; UK-badged, Taiwanese, and Chinese. Some of whom we already have longstanding relationships with, others who have seen the recent developments with HikVision and are keen to discuss us promoting their brand.
In terms of pulling something out of the hat for buyers seeking decent IP camera systems, we have for the past six weeks been discussing and testing a new brand-X. We are seeking a 'strong & stable' close partnership with a like-minded Partner for the mutual long-term benefit of both companies and our customers. We hope to be able to reach an agreement and bring you more details on this soon.
I hope this serves as a useful update, and helps to clarify some issues. I would invite anybody reading this to please feel free to respond with any further questions and/or concerns. I could have written even more. I am more than happy to discuss, explain and justify our stance on these developments.
I feel the need to reiterate that it is HikVision's strategy that changed; they do not want end-users to buy and self-install HikVision-branded products.
We still believe that those products remain some of the best that you can select for your IP CCTV system.
We continue to promote, recommend, and sell HikVision-branded products.
The HikVision strategy change and them attempting to block us happened very quickly. We switched our Home page and promotions to Samsung as a quick but logical reaction at that time.
We felt that Samsung was probably the best / strongest manufacturer to compete with HikVision. A well-known, respected and accepted brand with a long history in CCTV and a competitive product range/price offering.
The dilemma we have subsequently run into with Samsung is that the Q-Series (which is cost competitive with HikVision) performs badly, and the X-series is more expensive than most people would be willing to pay (should need to pay?).
NB - We have only performed one in-depth Samsung camera review:
Samsung QNV-7030R 4MP Vandal-Resistant IR Dome Camera
[the link above is to our new "IP Camera Reviews" website]
It was very disappointing - physically (hard to adjust axis 3) as well as performance-wise, with particularly poor IR and night-time performance as you say.
We have made Samsung aware of our findings.
Six weeks on from HikVision's strategy change, and in some ways little has changed - still almost 45,000 listings for HikVision products on ebay, still widely available at Amazon and other websites.
The reactions have been interesting; many angry at HikVision; one customer angry at us for encouraging him to base his system upon HikVision.
HikVision's response to angry customers has been along the lines of "you don't have the specialist skills to install our products well" - which has tended to make them even more angry.
HikVision's new global strategy was only introduced in the UK & Europe, where HiWatch has been introduced as a new low-cost / lower-spec end-user solution. I've not seen any feedback on HiWatch performance yet. We will in due course test and review.
It's going to be a tricky strategy for them to balance - two distinct lines of essentially the same product type (IP cameras) from a single manufacturer:
- HiWatch - You can trust our HikVision name / our cheap products are great - grab some in Maplins today and install them yourself!
- HikVision - You want/need something better than our cheap range, please pay an installer for access to our best products.
It's a debate that can, and will, go around in circles.
But it's a specious argument to claim that end-users should no longer be able to purchase HikVision-branded products because a set of skills over & above those needed to install HiWatch are required. HikVision themselves have only ever offered a one-day introductory course to their company and all their products - a course that our team found oh so basic.
Plainly, the real reason is to prevent pricing being shown online and thereby protect Trade installers' margins. But, there's a real risk in this strategy - that the Trade are now up against a new and even cheaper brand - HiWatch; from the same manufacturer; available widely; priced very competitively (to take market share from the likes of Swann & Foscam); and surely fit-for-purpose? Because, as customers are sure to argue - "it's the same manufacturer".
Perhaps those installers will direct their customers to the use-IP YouTube channel where they will be able to see which cameras perform best
In the USA HikVision have just announced 'EZVIZ Pro'. EZVIZ is yet another HikVision range of IP cameras. The EZVIZ range has been around for a year or more, and is firmly aimed at end-users. It seems that rather than introduce HiWatch in the USA they've decided to introduce a better 'Pro' range of EZVIZ cameras which end-users can buy (to the annoyance of Trade installers). A different, but equally muddled and risky strategy. HikVision-branded products remain available to all in USA - yes, to end-users who've had no training!
I say again, we continue, at this time, to recommend and sell HikVision-branded products.
They perform really well and offer great value.
Currently, THE best IP camera we have tested is HikVision's 8MP turret camera, their DS-2CD2385FWD-I.
Following-on from the publication of my statement we were approached by many brands; UK-badged, Taiwanese, and Chinese. Some of whom we already have longstanding relationships with, others who have seen the recent developments with HikVision and are keen to discuss us promoting their brand.
In terms of pulling something out of the hat for buyers seeking decent IP camera systems, we have for the past six weeks been discussing and testing a new brand-X. We are seeking a 'strong & stable' close partnership with a like-minded Partner for the mutual long-term benefit of both companies and our customers. We hope to be able to reach an agreement and bring you more details on this soon.
I hope this serves as a useful update, and helps to clarify some issues. I would invite anybody reading this to please feel free to respond with any further questions and/or concerns. I could have written even more. I am more than happy to discuss, explain and justify our stance on these developments.
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Yesterday, we revealed Milesight as our new 'Brand-X'
https://forum.use-ip.co.uk/threads/milesight.1344/
https://forum.use-ip.co.uk/threads/milesight.1344/
I did follow the news from hikvision. And i do find it strange at least. Also when hikvision have prices for there camera's in the EU 300% more than exact the same camera's in china, ebay. I can't with good sense bye them here. So i have all (exact my first one) running Chinese hikvision camera's even one 8mp. I think if you all want to sell and compete with china the price needs down with at least 250%. And there need to be more camera's available.
Hikvision is never clear on there camera range. No pictures no videos. Almost all the specifications are almost or exactly identical. And this is al for years.
Hikvision is never clear on there camera range. No pictures no videos. Almost all the specifications are almost or exactly identical. And this is al for years.
I realise this particular thread is now three years old but, having only just seen it, the above quote makes perfect sense now.
I wanted to purchase and self-install a CCTV system at home two years ago and I chose the HikVision brand purely on recommendation.
At the time I wanted the more feature rich Hikvision cameras but could only purchase the re-named HiLook brand. (Previously branded HiWatch but exactly the same spec)
The HiLook system works great, the images recorded are great, but for me there is one drawback... functionality.
The 'budget' range of IP cameras (unless there has been newer IP cameras released in the range) only support Basic Event detection and not Smart Event detection. This causes a multitude of false triggers, to the point where it becomes unbearable/unusable.
The HiLook NVR actually appears to support Smart Event detection, its all there in the configuration settings, but when trying to access the features the firmware duly reports that the attached camera does not support the function.
I want to be able to use the Smart features such as scene change detection, face detection, line crossing detection, intrusion detection, etc. to avoid/reduce false triggers.
But then I read this... "You want/need something better than our cheap range, please pay an installer for access to our best products". A bit of a slap in the face for people who are perfectly capable of self-install.
As you stated three years ago, even today there are still many listings for HikVision's 'trade only' products on ebay, and they are still widely available at Amazon and other websites.
I guess we have no other option but to go there to purchase because in HikVision's eyes we appear to be too incompetetent to purchase from yourselves .
Whether HikVision's 'better than cheap' range of cameras will work on the budget NVR remains to be seen.
Have you managed to test and review the HiLook series? I'd be interested in your views on it.
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