Question about H264+

[Jan J]

Good Morning!

I have searched through the Documents and Help files for this information, and though I do find references to this subject, I have not found this exact information, so I post here...

My camera of choice is 2CD2042WD-1, and with last 2 firmware's (5.5.53 or 5.5.82) I see identical operations...
I am using the cameras with Synology's Surveillance Station, Presently with the following camera settings: H264, 1920x1080 and 30 fps... All is fine...

Per Camera docs and Help files, I see camera supports H264, H264+, H265, H265+....
In the camera configs I see that H264 is only one directly accessible.... Is Manual (camera side) configuration for H264+ and above hidden somewhere I have yet to find, or is access to H264+ and above only accessible remotely (See Next Paragraph!)?

HOWEVER: Via Surveillance Station, I can (Remotely!) change the camera settings to H264 OR H264+ !!
This change is accompanied with a format change to 1280x720... At 1280x720/30 operations are fine, but I want the picture quality that more pixels can provide... Once at H264+, I can then change camera back to 1920x1080, but that image is not transferred to Surveillance Station, because now SS is at 1280x720 and will not change to 1920x1080...

MY QUESTION: Is it H264+ that is limiting me to 1280x720 or Surveillance Station.... The Camera seems to be "Trying"

Again, I've searched through documents at Camera and Surveillance Station side, and can find no definite answer if 1920x1080 is supported by H264+ or not...

I would prefer to use 1920x1080 over 1280x720 for the improvement in picture quality... but would also like the bandwidth improvements that H264+ could provide...

For now, seeing that I have not found a definitive answer, I remain at H264 and 1920x1080/30 and co-exist with the bandwidth it needs....

Thanks in Advance for any answers... I have identical post at Synology site Support folks as well....

 

[Dan]

Hi @Jan J

Based on this camera datasheet for your camera model I can see that it only supports H.264 and has no support for H.264+, H.265, or H.265+.

Although Synology may be showing you an H.264+ option it is likely that when selecting this it is not actually changing the CODEC used by the camera as it doesn't support it.

We would just recommend sticking with H.264 and 1920x1080.

 

[Jan J]

Help files in camera say otherwise, but could they be notes for ALL cameras?
H264+ Works fine, at 1280x720/30, and bandwidth savings are visable compared to H264... Once at H264+, Local camera Config changes show menu settings that previously were un-available from H264 at camera side... !! For a day or so I did run H264+ at 1280x720 on multiple cameras with firmware mentioned above, and there WAS a Bandwidth savings and all was FULLY OPERATIONAL !! Now if I could only figure out how to get SS H264 to support 1920x1080!

However, I agree with you that Unitl I find out how to get 1920x1080 operational at SS on H264+, that I should remain at H264 and 1920x1080/30, for the better picture quality...

Because the config menus did change, and camera Works with H264+ at 1280x720..... I posted this in case the information I found in the help files was something super seeding the Camera datasheet...

 

[Dan]

You're right that the help document is a generalised document and is basically the same document whichever camera, new or old, you are logged into.

It may be that one of the last firmware updates for this camera model did introduce support for H.264+ (it's a long time since we regularly handled 2x42WD models so can't be sure) and this would explain why it is not mentioned on the old datasheet, but as this was the early days of H.264+ there must have been a limitation on the image resolution that could be used while running this CODEC.

 

[Jan J]

PS: Actually THANK YOU for the data sheet... It was Different than the one I had, AND BETTER....

By the way, did you not notice that this DOES SUPPORT H264+ in the spec sheet you posted?

Firmware versions I tried that worked flawlessly was: (5.5.53 or 5.5.82)

It Does appear then that Camera in H264+ support 1920x1080?

 

[Dan]

You're welcome @Jan J

Apologies, your right about H.264+ (I read the H.264 Type box below that and completely missed the H.264+)

Just because that datasheet says support for H.264+ and support for 1080 resolution doesn't mean they will both work together, Hikvision are well known for not making little spec details like this very clear and based on our more recent experience of the limitations when they first brought in H.265 and H.265+ I would think that the resolution is probably limited when running H.264+.

 

[David]

Mine shows H264+ on the camera gui via ivms4200
DS-2CD2042WD-I
V5.5.82 build 190909

 

[Jan J]

How did you (locally) switch it to H264+ From H264 in the cam config menu? Mine does not show H264+ with same firmware version in that menu?
Are you set for 60 or 50? Fps?
I had to switch from H264 to H264+ via remote (SS) control to get H264+ to be enabled? I was unable to find a way to do it from local admin login to camera ??
Thanks!
PS: Doesn't your picture indicate H264 and not H264+ ?????

 

[Jan J]

OK! I got H264+ at 1920x1080/30 going on one of three cameras!
The “How to wasn’t at all like I expected!
Once I get other Two going, and do some test and screen captures, I’ll post more!

 

[Jan J]

OK Here's what I know... Yes, I got H264+ going with 1920x1080/30....
First: THE PICTURE DAVID POSTED IS CORRECT! H264 is displaying on config when H264+ is enabled!! That caused confusion:
Now it appears you cannot immediately access H264+ from settings........ IT MUST be done from a remote connection!
Apparently because you are using a remote connection to do this… you need to enable H264+. Then change to 1920x1080. Then change to 30 fps, THEN SAVE THE SETTINGS at thd remote end!!
So... Look at DAVID Posted... doesn't tell you much... now look at pix I posted (From Surveillance Station Camera config)!!! That specifically says H264+!!
Data Rate tests:
H264 at 1920x1080/30 with quality set at 4=~ 4400 to 4900 kbps
H264+ at 1920x1080/30 with quality set at 5=~ 610 t0 1700 Kbps

So it IS WORKING!

Yippee!

 

[Jan J]

Final update on this:

After visually comparing videos of the two, H264 & H264+, and getting some confusing results…. I got out a 16x9 Optical Camera Lens Resolution Chart.

When I first started this I was thinking that Picture Quality & Bandwidth were my only criteria for tests.
Once I got H264+ going, I realized the propagation delay of H264+ vs H264 would be an issue.
Now I learn that Motion Artifacts rear it’s ugly head in H264+ !!

The lens resolution chart makes it painfully obvious: That Aliasing Artifacts on Motion is painfully more obvious in H264+ than H264.
Yes! Bandwidth is reduced, but at a considerable additional amount of Motion Generated Aliasing Artifacts!

This has been an educational experience, but, I am now returning Settings to H264 with 1920x1080/30 fps. Using High Profile at Quality 4 of 5 for as much bandwidth savings without a picture quality loss.

 

[David]

Final update on this:

After visually comparing videos of the two, H264 & H264+, and getting some confusing results…. I got out a 16x9 Optical Camera Lens Resolution Chart.

When I first started this I was thinking that Picture Quality & Bandwidth were my only criteria for tests.
Once I got H264+ going, I realized the propagation delay of H264+ vs H264 would be an issue.
Now I learn that Motion Artifacts rear it’s ugly head in H264+ !!

The lens resolution chart makes it painfully obvious: That Aliasing Artifacts on Motion is painfully more obvious in H264+ than H264.
Yes! Bandwidth is reduced, but at a considerable additional amount of Motion Generated Aliasing Artifacts!

This has been an educational experience, but, I am now returning Settings to H264 with 1920x1080/30 fps. Using High Profile at Quality 4 of 5 for as much bandwidth savings without a picture quality loss.

In the end it is all swings and roundabouts. I wonder what H265 and H265+ would look like.

 

[Jan J]

I’d try, but my cameras apparently don’t support H265. But think of the learning experience it would give